Informal Chats
Sometimes I am asked to write comments on various things that are not really applicable for a post or article.These are just thoughts, and I don’t mind sharing these bits and pieces to get our thinking going.
No one is really able to discuss the ins and outs of “hell”. Jesus mentioned things about it so we would have a response and choice at a level we can identify with. But the reality of hell is not something we wish to know and cannot know here. This still leaves open the possibility of wondering about it.
Let’s take an example. If a person rejects God, and some even express that they hate God, then as we understand it, this carries over after death. The “State” of the person does not change once one passes on. The ability to repent, to change one’s state is a capability in this life. There are no conditions present after life to make these kinds of decisions, partly because in this life, the body, soul and spirit are intertwined in their required functions of how God created life and intended life to function. The occurrence of death is permanent with no ability to undo that finality. It is a total finish of life. This is why resurrection and grace is so important.
Another aspect is that people experience as through a veil, what hell represents and manifests already. Torment, bondage, burden, chains, addictions that carry all kinds of impacts to the person’s being, are tied into what we call sin and death, and the powers of darkness among men today. We have reasonably learnt that our physical and worldly sensations are dimmed from what they could be. For instance, if we had perfect sight, of which we were meant to have, we would see and experience the breath taking impact of the vault that covers the sky. Without this, that reality is still there in God’s creation but we can’t know that detail. After life, it is reasonable to believe the spiritual realm will not have such veils in a person’s experience. Everything will be of a clarity not known now. So, if in torment, it is partly from this more vivid experience.
It is said by some, if a person willfully blocks themself from God, who is the loving creator, this is intensified. Saying “Go away God” is now incredibly powerful and real – “GO AWAY GOD!!!!”. This should concern people.
Another aspect is that if we do not want to receive God’s love, it becomes intolerable to have that love in any shape or form. We recall the Bible’s description of the Jewish people yelling out to Moses, stop God talking, His presence is too much, we don’t want it!
A major stumbling block to personal development and spiritual growth is the love of sin. This is another discussion in itself. It is a very hard Cross to go down the path of removing sins we really like that have been such a full part of our lives, or how they manifest after a crisis, blocking recovery. Putting off the issues of the past means they become more dominant at some point. As we all have this problem, we cannot condemn others who face this as we must face it too. Few know this.
Rage against God, blaming God, guilt at our own failures that are in anger because we were not overcoming the “self”, not understanding our responsibilities as compared to Jesus’s responsibilities, these things create tragedy and deep, deep sorrow in the aftermath of crisis, trying to find life when in darkness. But, nothing is impossible with God, so there is a roadmap to finding, seeking life, which by the way has the reward of eternal life.
Another aspect is degeneration, from state to state, worse to worse, until a person is just blind and conformed to the power of evil.
Another aspect of hell has been described as the person’s particular sin remaining the focus, intensified, and without satisfaction, as hell cannot provide satisfaction to the flesh. The desire and focus remains permanent, and thus is torment. It is focused on the self to the exclusion of all other virtues that would normally interact or be aware of others.
There is a lot Jesus actually said, but the reader may see these references in the Gospels. I think there must be respect for what Jesus said about Hell, but our theological debates do not provide good answers as the basis for knowing what hell is. Discussion versus reality is different, and reality should pretty much scare anyone from continually deciding to refuse God. Refusal is a fact though, which Jesus said.
The Bible references the assembly or great assembly, which reminds us of “types” of what is in Heaven, or how we see as in a dim mirror now. Angels in festal gathering are not going to be deaf, dumb, blind, ignoring what God has created for our celebration.
Jesus will be singing in the great assembly with us. The 144,000 will have a song they specifically sing.
God has created the substance of music, which is incredible anyway we look at it. It is formed from some kind of supernatural basis that God made.
There is time and time again, wrong teaching on all that is true. To say our churches are not meant to worship in song is more than appalling. The Church receives the love imparted by the Holy Spirit in various degrees during worship. We even have video footage of angels singing in worship with worship in song.
The church has beauty as does music as an essential part of what was intended in creation.
Why do people present such bad error in doctrine and thought? Perhaps people get an emotional kick out of thinking they can expose something wrong when it is not wrong, and replacing with some imagined idea of the church. There is a psychology behind this, but also bad choices in development.
Without spiritual development, there will be those who take error on board.
We sing in the masses everywhere, such as in Jerusalem. Or in large USA convention centers with multiple thousands of saints. God reveals more of Himself over time, and we benefit in the response to that. Others in error want some kind of dry chalk board text book on what the church is supposed to be according to their own ignorance. May we be mindful these errors pop up all the time.
The early churches were springing up everywhere. As the Lord’s timeline on earth continues, things unfold, like the printing press. Did the early church use eBooks? We do! Hallelujah.
Unless one was in the world of the first churches, one cannot say what went on with many things, as it is not recorded. And we do not follow men’s laws as a substitute for the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us.
We must use good sense, common sense, spiritual sense. The early church DID sing songs, as the new testament says.
Jesus has joy and delight in us singing as His gathered people. And if it were otherwise, we would all know, as we recognise sin. The prophets and apostles would have told us too. We were built to sing together.
I once had a dream where a gathering of younger people were walking forward together in song. It was beautiful praise. Underneath it was a beating sound, regular, deep, distinct but not distracting. I asked the Lord what it was, as I felt it inwardly pretty deeply and could hear its perfect, regular beat, like the same rhythm of the heart. The Lord said it was heart beat of His people. Not the physical heart, but the true heart.
The heart produces what comes out of the speech and songs of the people.
We have those who also hassle over other matters that ARE in the new testament churches that are not in the churches today, except for some unwell and somewhat radicalised places. We do not have women wearing coverings sitting away from the men. We do not.
Where there is no sin, there is no judgement. Where there is sin, the question is whose sin is it causing these problems? Certainly from those causing disruption by saying the church is not supposed to have songs in worship.Fear, threat, accusations, false guilt – there are those who are pray to it, and as always, who want others to be bound to the same replacement of Spiritual freedom that pleases God, because they do not have anything else. The longer one stays under blindness, the longer is becomes compulsory, shaping and changing one’s thought patterns and sense of logic. Throw the water out of the bath with the baby. THis is not okay.
We have lots of people who have not grown up. Without growth, other elements of one’s wholeness do not develop. Things like compassion, empathy, love, all suffer at the hand of psychological or spiritual dysfunction. Those who have not been in trial and endurance, those who have a very small world around them come up with such ideas – but they are not just ideas, they are designed to be put into action and squash the church and the saints. If a man is not spiritual he will not see what absurdities he is proclaiming and the extent of harm.
Our liberty in Christ is constantly battered by the waves that would take away our genuine freedoms, one of which is worship in song. All the great church songs of past and present that we know well, would not have been written and sung if it was wrong. All the songs that provide comfort and hope and faith in Jesus. Amazing Grace, may we sing it with many other songs amongst each other without hindrance to our spirits.
Amen
We have plenty of YouTube videos and television services with messages for the Church that are very beneficial. I appreciate them a lot.
There are also bad videos that pull people away from Jesus. For instance, the non-Christian content on who Jesus “really was”, or content about aliens having created mankind, and more.
One video presented non-Christian views about Jesus, but throughout the discussion, there was no reference back to what Jesus actually said. Jesus’s words, and what was in the Old Testament prophecies conflicted sharply with what was being said. The presenter did not bring any of that content up for a response.
I am perplexed people can present narratives without concern for the work many others have done that counter their own arguments. But the ease at which a non-Christian narrative is presented, smoothly, gently, comfortably is what surprises me. Perhaps a point is reached at which a person commits themselves to a non-Christian position. That position has to be presented as calmly and nicely as possible in a public forum. Two things concern me regarding the fear of God – a judgement that is upon a person, not covered by the Cross of Jesus, and a decision to commit one’s life to a particular direction not within God’s permissive will.
I’m not saying people are perfect at all, but the fundamental decisions that unfold and become reality from some point onward, entirely impacting who the person is due to that commitment. What foundations are we building on?
As an example of a couple of arguments…
Jesus knew fully well who he was as sent by the Father, and he knew the Old Testament prophecies about himself. Jesus even showed these scriptures to the disciples. Jesus made reference throughout the Gospels on his crucifixion and resurrection. This was fundamental content all Gospel writers agreed on, and of course the exposition further provided by Acts, and the New Testament letters. Where the Gospels differ is not in conflict with Christ born of the Virgin Mary, crucified for our sins , resurrected, and salvation with eternal life.
The Gospels can either be honest written accounts to help with some service in mind, or as a worldly view that negates the Gospels, saying they are written with an agenda. Which is it? The negative is an incredibly shallow argument. You have to take a negative view in order to formulate statements that support a non-Christian view. All of this removes the Spirit of Testimony about Jesus, which is the Spirit of Prophecy. It takes a long time to understand more about how the mind works, where it fabricates or imagines, and what that feels like. This is no easy task as it is ongoing process as we personally submit more to the Cross of Christ. Presenters with various worldly views of Christ are not doing this.
If we take Luke’s account of the Gospel, my personal view is that he had a team of people working with him, that he collected as much written material as he could, and spoken accounts of people he and his team visited. This was a well considered and thoughtful project.
Testimony is vital to any legal case. Some lawyers when opposing a person, will try to remove testimony as being non-valid. Or, if trying to convict a person where testimony is critical, will insist on its validity. Regardless, it is valid. This is part of the construct underlying the whole human race and how it works. It is not possible to remove it. I don’t know who Luke spoke to, but he was honest in his account because of the way he writes. It is not an agenda for his own benefit, and if it were, to what end? Luke had personal accounts of Jesus. Were there living survivors of that time? I don’t know, but there were others in direct contact with the original witnesses who passed on those accounts. People were much smarter than we realise – a tax collector could speak more than one language, scribes could remember exact wording. People have to skip over these realities to present other viewpoints, or simply not talk about them. People have not learnt to expect details or what questions to ask when they are being told what is supposedly true.
There is also a lot of content already provided about scripture authenticity and the timeline and historical accuracy. To say the scriptures were written too long after the events of Christ is simply a false statement, which shows the person saying this is either purposely lying, or using such a statement to give credence to what they say. If you as a listener do not see a flagrant academic lie, you won’t know.
Briefly, the “gospel” of Judas Iscariot, is not a gospel of good news about Jesus and salvation. It is written from an original earlier language that has ties to worship of other “gods”, tied into Egypt and so forth. The document relates to non-Christian constructs about mankind and aliens etc. There is nothing Christian about it. Yet, we are told there is a newly discovered gospel, that it says who Jesus really is and what he said. There is no mention of the purposeful ties back to its ancient language and the aims of this for an organised construct. It is not a new gospel, and presenting it without this fuller context I briefly mention here, is in my view another fabrication or lie. If it cannot be said what something is, it is purposeful deceit. I do not need to be an academic or theologian to see where the obvious is being omitted. If you want to see what people do, read the current Chinese translation of the Bible which says Jesus murdered the prostitute. When we see in the Judas document that Jesus laughed, this is out of character with the New Testament documents, and the historical documents others wrote who met Jesus and his friends and wrote about him and his character. There was no special knowledge between Jesus and Judas Iscariot. Jesus did not laugh and murder the prostitute. Jesus had great joy when he saw Satan fall from Heaven.
Another example that is really bad, is twisting the mind around all sorts of theories of aliens creating mankind. None of this is supported by evidence either. One such person was in an interview with a respected senior Jewish scholar. The man presented his pet theory to the scholar. Immediately the scholar said, “No!”. He pointed out why he was wrong. However, this theory remained a pet view he did not want to give up. So, for the rest of his life he spoke of his idea as fact. He refused to give the counter arguments or to let it go based on evidence. Delusional spirits do this. If a man wants to get into demonic-inspired or other dark, bad stuff, there has to be severity of some kind somewhere along the way. And what does this achieve? Confusion, and a worldly view of Jesus. Something gets people intrigued and into these things.
Do you notice how uncomfortable someone can be when asked if they ever pray? Conviction does not go away when we have guilt or unresolved circumstance. When it does go away without resolve, we have to ask about these dynamics. Has it really gone away? Does it change the “organ” of conscience.
I think we will hear and see more about alien phenomena, and things that astound the world. I think we will see more about genetics. Such will have its own power and deception in the absence of the Holy Spirit’s testimony. I think we have to start tilling the ground for truth, now, if not already.
We are told of the Virgins who had lamps with oil, and those who ran out. Jesus returned, and some were not ready. They were left behind.
I feel the Church is being prepared for Christ’s return (which of course is scriptural), but in a real sense, not a theological sense.
I think we are given times and situations where we commit something to God and He commits to us, then when the time does eventually come to help us, those who are prepared will receive, and those who fail on their faith do not receive. There are different ways we can describe this. For instance, if you prayed for healing and do believe it will come, will there be faith at a later point when God is ready to provide on His promise. Some seed will fall on good soil, and some will not. I think we will see people in the Church who basically miss out.
In 2010, the Lord impressed upon me very firmly, do not miss out. What I was going through was part of endurance, my faith and energy in a strong direction towards God. It was a sense of imperative. It was urgent and very real. To me this meant there will be people who miss out. We are told in scripture, by Jesus, not to fall into a trap, not to miss out. This does not dismiss the pain and suffering we may go through, or how different things can rip us apart or wear us out.
The message remains clear.
There is confusion on what the scripture means when it says Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. It says, in essence, true testimony to Jesus, is by the Spirit of prophecy, meaning anything else is not, meaning there is a spirit of prophecy, which of course is via the Holy Spirit who testifies of Jesus.
If we do not know this Spirit, we rely on teaching. Is a teaching true or false? When the New Testament prophets gave testimony, hence from the Holy Spirit, we were told we may discern if it was true or not, as there were many false prophets and people leading others astray. I believe all Christians on their spiritual birth have discernment built into them and a spirit of prophecy – which is about the testimony or voice of Jesus to His sheep, to know His voice by this inner testimony rather than being led astray.
It is fundamentally scriptural to think of Jesus as coming at any time. It is not about radicalisation or imbalance. I have prayed about this at various times, and it still remains as best approach. Jesus himself warns of not going of on weird tangents around this. It conditions the heart to be ready – and hence ready for anything that God wishes to bring upon mankind, either revival, ability to respond to something, meeting the Lord in our natural time, removing sins from our life as best we can, or meeting Him in the clouds of His great glory.
